Sat. Oct 1st, 2022

I will probably stay out of this, for the most part, but I ran into this quote over at Bartcop…

“‘The more I read from Obama bloggers and the Creative Class, I’m convinced that driving the Clinton wing of the Dem Party out is one of their primary goals. The Obama Wing of the Democratic Party needs to decide what is more important to them, winning in November, or destroying the Clinton Wing of the Democratic Party. I doubt they can do both.'”

“– Big Tent Democrat”

I’d especially be interested in comments about “doing both.” Perhaps you feel it’s totally off base, or that the opposite is happening. Maybe you think they should be driven out, but if that’s the case… how wise is that?

By Ken Carman

Entertainer, provider of educational services, columnist, homebrewer, collie lover, writer of songs, poetry and prose... humorist, mediocre motorcyclist, very bad carpenter, horrid handyman and quirky eccentric deluxe.

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frank the liberal
14 years ago

Although I am an Obama delegate, I am NOT an “Obamabot”. I know quite a few though and they are disgusted with the DLC Dems. They tell me that the corporate culture embraced by the Clinton types is no different than the GOPers. There was a time when I thought the DLC was a good idea. The Dems were WAY sucking in fund raising and needed money BAD to stop getting buried. Obama has a HUGE following which is good. He has energized a lot of people new to politics. New to politics. THAT’S what’s WRONG with the Obama crew. They have a database of MILLIONS of people who give a hundred bucks each and have a movement. The Clintons, like it or not, saved the Democratic party even if that meant doing the business of the republican congress.
I fear the most extreme element of BOTH sides of this primary season will be at each other’s throats when it’s over.The Clintards will vote for McCranky and destroy the country, or the Obamabots will stay home sulking and destroy the country. The most important speech of this century will be the speech delivered by whoever wins this thing.

The All-Mighty Webmaster
Admin
14 years ago

I know quite a few though and they are disgusted with the DLC Dems.

I am one of those, and I’ve touched on it here before.

The DLC was created in the mid-1980s by Conservative Democrats with the idea of securing the 1988 nomination of a Southern Democrat such as Sam Nunn or Chuck Robb. After Jesse Jackson won a large number of states during the “Super Tuesday” of 1988, the DLC then decided to shift its focus to changing the public debate.

It is the opinion of the DLC that economic populism is not politically viable, citing the defeated Presidential campaigns of Senator George McGovern in 1972 and Vice-President Walter Mondale in 1984. The DLC states that it “seeks to define and galvanize popular support for a new public philosophy built on progressive ideals, mainstream values, and innovative, non-bureaucratic, market-based solutions.”

The DLC has supported welfare reform, such as the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 , President Clinton’s expansion of the Earned Income Tax Credit, and the creation of AmeriCorps. The DLC supports expanded health insurance via tax credits for the uninsured and opposes plans for single-payer universal health care. The DLC supports universal access to preschool, charter schools, and measures to allow a greater degree of choice in schooling (though not school vouchers), and supports the No Child Left Behind Act. The DLC supports both NAFTA and CAFTA.

The DLC has both supported and criticized the policies of President George W. Bush. The DLC opposed the partial birth abortion ban, the expiration of the 1994 assault weapon ban, the Clear Skies Initiative, and what they perceived as a lack of funding of the Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) program. In 2001 the DLC endorsed the idea of tax cuts for the middle class, but then opposed the tax cuts favored by Bush, which they said favored the wealthy. The organization supports some forms of Social Security privatization but opposes financing private retirement accounts with large amounts of borrowed money.

Recently, the DLC also urged Senate Democrats to vote against Bush’s nomination of Samuel Alito to the U.S. Supreme Court “on principle”, but firmly opposed any filibuster of the nominee.

Bruce Dixon of the Black Commentator calls the DLC the “Republican Trojan Horse in the bowels of the Democratic machinery”, and he isn’t wrong. He posted three “bright line” questions that would determine whether a candidate belonged in the DLC or not:

1. Do you favor the withdrawal of the United States from NAFTA? Will you in the Senate introduce or sponsor legislation toward that end?

2. Do you favor the adoption of a single payer system of universal health care to extend the availability of quality health care to all persons in this country? Will you in the Senate introduce or sponsor legislation toward that end?

3. Would you have voted against the October 10 congressional resolution allowing the president to use unilateral force against Iraq?

A “yes” to any of those questions would disqualify you. Read Obama to Have Name Removed from DLC List.

I personally think that the Clinton Era has passed, and the failed policies of the DLC are also through.

We’ve each complained here over the past few years about how the Republicans ran roughshod over the Democratic minority from 2000 through 2006. But notice now that the Democrats are in control of Congress, not much has been done — they still let the Republican minority drive the bus.

It is because there really isn’t any daylight between the DLC Dems and the Republican caucus — the “free market” Democrats, the pro-war Dems.

We’ve been the frog in the boiling water so long that most of us hadn’t noticed. It hasn’t been until progressive radio came out that progressives started discussing this stuff amongst themselves.

So yes, it is time to retire the Clinton wing of the Democratic Party, Just as we retired earlier Democratic giants such as Johnson, Jackson, Kennedy, etc.

It is a new century, with new challenges, and new solutions. We need fresh new directions, and Obama represents that.

I don’t buy into the Clinton argument that because SHE won the “big” states in the primary that those “big” states won’t vote for Obama in the General election. Sure, there will be those states like West Virginia and parts of Kentucky that will NEVER vote for a black man even if he ran unopposed — not even a half-black man like Obama. No real loss, the other states will be blowouts in favor of Obama.

Hillary should drop out of the race once the primary is over. There is absolutely no mathematical way she can win now, and the longer she continues with this strange “Hillary Math” she has, the harder it is going to be to rally the party behind the real nominee for the Fall.

I have a VERY long post about this that I will finish in the morning and post. I deliberately wrote it objectively and I hope that by the time you get through it, you will understand how futile her claim is going to be and how fighting the inevitable is only going to hurt the party.

Grouchy
Grouchy
14 years ago

they owe hillary more then a swift kick in the ass….and thats whats happening. people can holler all they want but all this poo ppong about race is wishful thinking….and screw hillary if they want to but her supporters will have the last laugh in nov…healing my ass….this party is in serious trouble.

damspot
14 years ago

I think it’s time to have a non-professional individual who is not connected to the ‘old boy’ network, that has been in place for so long. Kennedy was also one of those who everyone thought of as having no experience and were subject to his charisma. Unfortunetly, he managed to piss off the wrong people and I fear Obama could end up the same way even before he is elected. Can anyone spell ‘Body in the park’ or mysterious air crash?

Don
Don
14 years ago

hey owe hillary more then a swift kick in the ass….and thats whats happening. people can holler all they want but all this poo ppong about race is wishful thinking….and screw hillary if they want to but her supporters will have the last laugh in nov…healing my ass….this party is in serious trouble.

Nice attitude. I am glad rupublicans aren’t as childish as this!!!

:em95:

:em02:

Grouchy
Grouchy
14 years ago

don are you suggesting that i am reading the situation wrong?

Don
Don
14 years ago

don are you suggesting that i am reading the situation wrong?

I am suggesting that Clinton has every right to do what she wants…..however…..she has lost. Why is it so hard for clinton supporters to just lose. There is nothing shameful about it. She lost a tough fought close race….best thing to do is lose with dignity…no matter what a few racists in Kentucky think….21% said race had something to do with their decision.

If Obama was in this position….hell he would have never made it to this position….after he lost 11-12 in a row the media and Clinton would have been calling for his head.

I said I would stay out of this, for the most part. I’m interested in your response, not adding to my own bloviating. However, I thought I’d pour on a little high octane gas, as expensive as it is these days, to the flame… or “flaming,” if you wish. Apparently Barack recently said, like Howard Dean did when he ran, that he’s interested in breaking up the MSM. Thom Hartmann and I agree that it’s a great idea but he should have waited to say anything like that until after the election. Thom gives the example of what happened the day after Dean said that, the MSM collectively started talking about, “Why is Howard Dean so angry?” It was almost as if a switch had been pulled somewhere. Thom thinks that’s part of what ditched Dean’s run.

Interesting…I never heard that from the 2004 primaries….and didn’t hear Barack say that either…don’t care really!!!! But it is interesting.

Grouchy
Grouchy
14 years ago

a few racist in ky? and wv and ohio and penns…etc look aaround don i bet u know a racist

Don
Don
14 years ago

a few racist in ky? and wv and ohio and penns…etc look aaround don i bet u know a racist

Yep…sure do…..they disgust me. I told a client to leave my office because they started to talk politics and called Barack…”that nigger”….and how they will never vote for him. I informed them I am not voting for him either….but being black is hardly the reason why…and that if they wish to continue using my services, they will check their tongue at the door. I am sure they would have a different tone if it was Representative Watts from Oklahoma….I am sure he would be an acceptable nigger to them.

Yes, I know racists. However, if you won’t vote for Obama because you support Hillary…then you are racist…because their platforms are nearly identical.

Grouchy
Grouchy
14 years ago

you saying i am a racust? based on what?

frank the liberal
14 years ago

I’ve worked in country bands with folks from Texas and So Carolina and Arkansas. They were delightful,smart and wise people, people who although they barley graduated from high school and spoke with thick southern accents, were very good, honest,smart and fair-minded people….until race came up in conversation.
I’ve worked in R&B bands where I was the only white guy. They accepted me as one of their own and would give me the shirt off their backs or share their last joint with me, but they took great pleasure hearing about the cowboys I worked with. Hearing a black guy imitating a rich white guy is insane funny.
Racism is alive and stinking on ALL sides. I tolerated it like I was playing a ’58 Fender Jazz Bass with one dead string. The other three sounded so beautiful, it almost made up for the dead one.
This election is NOT a game. Hurt feelings and getting into a snit,or even intolerance of race or gender is NO excuse to vote for a global depression or a third world war. THOSE are the stakes, plain and simple. I pray to whatever God exists that the light bulb turns on. We only have to reconcile for one God damn day in November. Skin color or genatailia ain’t gonna mean SHIT when our country is under a hundred foot thick layer of radio-active glass,

Grouchy
Grouchy
14 years ago

amen frank amen

Don
Don
14 years ago

That was my point Grouch. At least for you democrats…I guess you missed it.

The All-Mighty Webmaster
Admin
14 years ago

I was just talking to a friend this evening who told me that there was absolutely no way he was going to vote for a black guy.

Now this guy isn’t political in any way, shape, or form, he doesn’t pay that close attention “because none of them are going to do a thing for me. Never have, never will.”

He said he would vote for Hillary if she was on the ticket, otherwise, he would be forced to vote for McCain — “because he has been around”.

*sigh*

He doesn’t care if electing McCain might cost him more in gas, food, even his job. He doesn’t see it that way. He just knows that electing a black guy is just wrong, without ever knowing why.

franktheliberal
14 years ago

I HOPE American will vote for a COGENT person for president. PERIOD!

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